Transcript:

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to roots, routes, and voices that shape America, a Cincinnati Compass podcast. I’m your host and creator of the series Clara Martinote.

Bryan Wright:
And I’m Bryan Wright, executive director of Cincinnati Compass and your cohost. Before we dive in, the views and stories shared on this podcast are those of our guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cincinnati Compass. We believe every voice has a place, especially when it shapes the future of our cities.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
On this podcast, we delve into the heart of the American experience through the lens of its most vital asset, its people. And in this series, we serve as your campus, guiding you through the diverse stories in the Cincinnati region that highlight the American immigrant experience that often goes unheard.

Bryan Wright:
Today’s guest is a true global force. Sarah Tsai, founder and CEO of Sarah Tsai Consulting, has a story that moves from Taiwan to The US through diplomatic service, high fashion modeling, global marketing, and tech innovation before finding a home and making an impact in Cincinnati. With degrees in Arabic and international relations, Sarah has worked with global brands like Nestle Purina and PepsiCo, built her own consultancy, and became a sought after speaker, all while raising a family and staying deeply connected to her heritage. Let’s get into it.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Sarah, welcome to Roots, Routes, and Voices. We are excited to hear your story.

Sarah Tsai:
Thank you for having me.

Bryan Wright:
Welcome.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
And we are going to dive right into it. You were born in Taiwan and eventually earned a degree in Arabic language and literature. What aspects of your upbringing in Taiwan influenced your educational choices?

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, gosh. So my father is a neurosurgeon, and so my whole family moved to Cincinnati in the eighties. I was nine years old. We lived three years here in Cincinnati. I feel like Cincinnati is my second home. After my father finished his PhD in molecular biology, we moved back to Taiwan. He really wanted to serve the healthcare system in the country. So not only did he practice medicine, but he was very interested in research and administration.

Sarah Tsai:
So I went to Indian Hill High School or Elementary School for fifth, sixth, and seventh grade. Mhmm. And then I went back to Taiwan, finished, high school, and picked Arabic language and literature for my college degree because I read this book by Samuel Huntington that the future

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
The clash of civilizations.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. So, I thought, well, I speak English now because I, you know, got my education in The United States briefly, and then I was fluent in Mandarin, so the missing one was Arabic. So that’s how I picked what I was gonna study in college.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
That is so interesting because Samuel Huntington was a big influence for me too. I loved reading The Clash of Civilizations.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. I then went to England to get my master’s degree in political science, international studies, minored in translation. So I really had hopes that I would work in a diplomatic service.

Bryan Wright:
So you’re going back a little bit. So when you went to universe your first college university experience, was that in Taiwan or where were you for your university?

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. It was in Taiwan.

Bryan Wright:
In Taiwan.

Sarah Tsai:
It was very competitive. So you go through entrance exams. So in order to get into a good junior high school, you have to take an exam. Then junior high to senior high, there’s an exam. And then senior high to college is another cattle call of the entrance exam. So, yeah. Did a lot of those.

Bryan Wright:
And out of all of all the options, when did you go into a graduate program in England right after undergrad or ?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. I applied to my last year of undergrad and got into the master’s program straight away. And if you know about my family, you know, my cousin works at Apple, worked with Steve Jobs. Another cousin is MIT engineering, Stanford law. Like, it was like, my dad

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Are you an underachiever? Is that as well achieved as you are?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. So getting a master’s degree was sort of like a barrier to entry and expected in my family.

Bryan Wright:
So out of all the places you could have gone. Right? So you already had a connection to The US. You mentioned family members connected to Apple. Why England? Was it that it seemed kind of like a rebellious choice? Right? So how did you end up going there versus and you had other options. Right? So yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
So I did public speaking, in high school and college, and I actually had a scholarship to go to Leeds, my third year college. So they offered me a scholarship to do a master’s program after, so that was sort of the logical next step. I just took the scholarship and went.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Okay. Awesome. So your career after college, you began working with the UK government?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. So it’s my first job out of school.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Foreign service. Yes. That seems like a huge job right out of school right out of college.

Sarah Tsai:
It’s funny because I joke that I was a spy.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Is it just a joke, though?

Sarah Tsai:
No. Well, my official title was a political analyst, so you guys can do the math. But, I finished graduate school. I went back to Taiwan. And as you know, Taiwan doesn’t have formal diplomatic relations with a lot of the foreign entities, so we call it the British Culture and Trade Office. So I applied for a job there, but it was like a de facto embassy because we passed out visas. So if you wanted to go to England, you had to go to the cultural office to get a stamp. And I worked there as a political analyst, so my job was writing about, you know, human rights, parliamentary proceedings, and all kinds of things pertaining to Taiwan, and it would get sent via telegraph in a secret room, back to, I hear, the queen.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, wow.

Bryan Wright:
So when you’re there doing this work, was this kind of did it meet your expectations of what you thought this career would be, or did you know that this was kind of an early stage of your career? And, like, how were you feeling at the time?

Sarah Tsai:
It, like, bombed. Like, I had yeah. I had hopes. I was gonna bring about world peace. I was gonna work in diplomatic services. I wanted to change the world And, no, like, my colleagues were spit stamping passports. I was writing reports, and I remember going up to the consulate, like, the head of our office Mhmm. Who is, you know, a band ex diplomat.

Sarah Tsai:
And I was like, what’s my future here? Like, where do you see me going? Yeah. And he’s like, nowhere. You’re just gonna stay and write reports for us. There’s really no advancement for a local hire. And I was like, well, thank you for your honesty.

Bryan Wright:
Yeah. That’s

Sarah Tsai:
And my counterpart so I was a political analyst, and my counterpart, Emily, is the economic analyst. So she has a degree from a British institution in the economy. She’s still there now to this day.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Doing the same job?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. But she’s very happy. Like, she, you know, she has kids and she lives in Taiwan. She has a very stable job. I mean, it was a fun job because we got to hang out with politicians, reporters. We were on the front line with us. You’re almost like a newscaster, except you have the halo of a foreign service, you know, representative. We also celebrated the Queen’s birthday, so we had QBPs every year.

Sarah Tsai:
And then we would socialize with all the other foreign councilates, like the Canadians and the, you know, the Arabs. Like, every foreign party that there is, you get to go to.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
You get to. Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
But, two years later, I was like, okay, well, there’s no advancement here. So I’d had to figure something else out.

Bryan Wright:
I’m sorry. What you said QBP. What does that stand for?

Sarah Tsai:
Queen’s Birthday Party.

Bryan Wright:
Oh, but okay. QBP. Sorry. Yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
QBP. So it hits a lot of young professionals.

Bryan Wright:
Right? Yeah. Like parties, people from all over the world, multicultural, international experiences, but then the dream crasher comes and says there’s no career advancement.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Right. That was great. That was all great for two years. Right.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. I met a lot of people, you know, could talk the talk, walk the walk, but felt like there was really I really should have majored in something else.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
So tell me, walk me through the decision that you ultimately made when you were told, okay. This is it. There’s really no advancement. So what took you from what was your next step in that process? What took you from there to ultimately maybe coming back to America?

Sarah Tsai:
So in one of those very fun parties, I met consultants from Arthur Andersen and McKinsey. Mhmm. And they were all making 6 figures and more.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
And I finally realized why everybody wanted an MBA. I didn’t know what an MBA was. Yeah. Because my dad’s in health care. You know, you’re really only exposed to the degree that you like, your career option is very much limited by what your parents do or what you’re exposed to in high school. So I love workforce programs and, you know, just getting our kids familiarized with different industries and telling them all the options they could have. Well, I didn’t have that back in the nineties.

Bryan Wright:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
So I very naively thought that by majoring in international studies, speaking multiple languages, I would be able to do something to change the world. And I very quickly realized that money is what makes the world go round, and I don’t understand why they write reports. Right? These consultants, they write reports and they put together PowerPoints and I write reports, but our salary was, like, so different.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
So I decided to somehow pivot and get into the workforce in a way that was more business oriented.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
So what did the other Anderson consultants tell you?

Sarah Tsai:
Like how much they made?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, how much they made.

Bryan Wright:
That was the selling point.

Sarah Tsai:
I mean, I was making like 30, maybe, not even, and I was paid well for, you know, the economy, where I lived. They were like 6 figures and over. Mhmm.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. So were you pretty much like, okay, what do you do? Like for 6 figures. I’m trying to understand, like, the conversation that ultimately made you change your mind besides the 6 figures and you’re going like, did somebody tell you, oh, you need to do an MBA. This is how you get to six figures. And you’re like, okay. I need to do that.

Sarah Tsai:
I mean, dollars and cents was a wake up call, of course. I think also the fact that I look at a lot of high school kids now and they’re choosing college. They come out of college with massive debt, and you just have to look at that profit to debt ratio of what type of job you can get with a college degree, especially in the current climate. So, I had to very quickly sort of you know, I did research. Right? Like, that was my job. So, like, try to figure out, well, how do I make more money to support myself and provide the lifestyle or furnish the aspiration. So I think the pivot wasn’t, oh, I’m going to go from diplomacy or public service into business. The pivot was more like, okay, well, how much money do I need to make to support myself to maybe someday buy a house? I may not be thinking about it then, but just, like, kind of look at what would lead to a more fulfilling life and what difference can I make? It was less of a pipe dream, more of, okay, this is actually where rubber meets the road.

Sarah Tsai:
Right. Like, the money you’re making, you can rent a studio or a two bedroom apartment. Right? Like, so I was, like, very practical trying to make that adjustment to, okay, what does my revenue prospects look like? Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
When you were thinking about all of that, those calculations, was there a place to consider? Like, did you think, like, oh, I’ll stay in England or I’ll go to Taiwan or I’ll go to The US or maybe some other country. Was that a part of the calculation? Because cost of living is different in each place, you know, ways of making money and, like, types of careers, options are different. Did you have a place in mind, or did you do that factor into where because it seems like you had mobility as an option. Right? So did that factor in?

Sarah Tsai:
You’d be surprised that it’s not as much of an option as you think. So even though I did my post graduate degree in England, I was not able to work in The United Kingdom. I mean, I worked as a locally employed employee in Taiwan for a British institution. There’s a big difference.

Bryan Wright:
Got it.

Sarah Tsai:
So I was paid as a local staff member. I had one option that was available to me was to come live with my mom because my parents divorced in the eighties. After my dad finished his studies, my mom moved back to Cincinnati, and she had applied for green cards for me and my sister. So we both had the option of coming to The United States if we wanted to. Admittedly, the decision factor between staying in Taiwan or coming to The United States was I didn’t really like how women were treated. I mean, today, there’s the Me Too movement, and we’re sort of at the forefront of legalizing same sex marriage. But back then, it was a very male dominant, chauvinistic culture. We’ve gone through we, meaning Taiwan, have gone through lots of changes in the last thirty years.

Sarah Tsai:
So, I think I would have been much happier working there now with those changes, but back then, it was just, like, who you knew.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
The prime world.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. All the executives were male. And I remember coming to Cincinnati and I went to the We Lead program at the Chamber, and it was about women and training you to become leaders. And people in my class are now, like, you know, president of Alta Fiber and, you know, working as legal counsel at the city of Cincinnati. So it was even back then a lot of encouragement for women to be in leadership programs and provide those resources for women to poise themselves as leaders.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Yeah. Let’s go back. I wanna go back a little bit. I think we neglected this part of you growing up in Taiwan. Can you tell us a little more about your childhood in Taiwan, and especially now that you are so rooted in the Cincinnati community and you’re a mom, what are some of, what are some maybe lines that you can draw between your childhood and your kids’ childhood, the kids’ identity?

Sarah Tsai:
Oh my gosh, I love that question. So I grew up in I would say post second World War Taiwan. And what that means is it’s occupied militarily. I grew up in a military compound. I ran around with no shoes. I grew up just in, like, a very community oriented environment. I tried looking for that.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Who were the occupiers? Is it the Chinese military?

Sarah Tsai:
So Taiwan is occupied by the nationalists that retreated from China.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Okay.

Sarah Tsai:
So after the second World War, China became communist. And the political party that supported democracy retreated Mhmm. To Taiwan. And I grew up on a military compound. My grandfather was a military general under Chiang Kai shek. And so, it was a very happy time. It’s just, you know, we grew our own vegetables. Everybody was very helpful. We’re trying to build a whole new country on this little island and trying to claim it as, you know, our land. I know now it’s very controversial.

Bryan Wright:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
Because Taiwan, there’s people who were there before, similar to here, like the Native Americans or But, in Taiwan, at the time when I was growing up, we just kind of shared everything, people were very kind and generous to one another. So I had, like, a really happy childhood growing up in that community.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. And what perils would you draw between growing up and your kids?

Sarah Tsai:
Okay. So we live in the village of Marymount, and I get it. It’s kind of like a Truman Show. Like, it’s its own little bubble, but my kids love their friends. They can run around in the neighborhood. We walk to school. Okay. So that’s, like, one thing that’s really lovely about, living in close quarters.

Sarah Tsai:
There’s no carpool line. Well, there is. There are people who take school buses and there are people who drive their kids, but in the little village, my kids can just, you know, go to graders or go to Starbucks. They walk everywhere. They can go play tennis and they can go to their friend’s house. And then when the sun goes down, they know they need to come home for dinner. So it’s not like, oh, you have to schedule a play date two weeks out in thirty minute increments. It’s just very free and happy.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Thirty minute increments. Right. Three days.

Bryan Wright:
But it does have its own person I mean, Mariemont does have I mean, you know you’re in Mariemont. I know. I mean,

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
It’s very distinct. I love Mariemont. It’s such a bubble. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s such a bubble. I think it’s very cute too.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
I saw something where it was voted one of America’s best 50 small towns or whatever, you know, all those rankings, and it’s like, Marymount, Ohio. I’m like, okay. I totally see that.

Sarah Tsai:
It’s not the most diverse place, but it’s very well, from a city planning perspective, very well constructed.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
I’m very we have so many I have so many questions about how you ended up in Marymount because we were talking about, you know, kind of life choices and talking about your mom being here, going through that kind of green card process as you were deciding where to go. So obviously you’re here now.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
Can we go back and see when at what point did you just add right. To come to The US. And then you it was here in Cincinnati, but so have you always been in Marymount when you came here? Or did you

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, no. I had before I had kids, I was cool. But

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
You’re not Emsa Bev and Marymont.

Bryan Wright:
You’re just too cool. I used to

Sarah Tsai:
What’s cool? Mount Adams. I had a condo downtown in OTR. Like, come on. Like, I wasn’t always, you know, enamored with soccer practice and almost got into fist fights at basketball games, but yes. So,

Bryan Wright:
There’s a story there.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
There’s a story. I especially liked before I had kids, I was cool.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. So I had a very vibrant social life. You know, I worked with an entrepreneur that lived on marrying sorry. I worked with an entrepreneur that had an office on Mount Adams. So that’s where I worked. I lived downtown, and I often hosted parties at my condo. It was a 15 square feet industrial building condo that could fit about 50 to a hundred people for beer pong night.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
A condo downtown?

Bryan Wright:
Right.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Where is that, Sarah? That would fit a hundred people. I mean,

Sarah Tsai:
I’m not that Clara has seen that version of me. If you see me now in sweatpants and a carpool line, you would not know that that was a version of my life. That’s great.

Bryan Wright:
So what time period is this? Like, what are we late nineties, early ‘2 thousands? Like, what’s the time period?

Sarah Tsai:
So I officially moved to Ohio in 2002. Okay. K. 2002. I officially became a citizen in 2007. And I would say within those five years, it was a lot of trial and error. I mean, I did, you know, a lot of odd jobs, like pet sitting.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Pet sitting.

Sarah Tsai:
And, you know, just kind of trying to find my way around, working for other people and you know, just had, like, admin jobs. And then

Bryan Wright:
Pure money, you know? Pure money, you know, for the parties and stuff you’re throwing.

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, no. I didn’t have the condo and the No.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
That was before that.

Bryan Wright:
Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
That was before. Okay. So I started working for a friend who’s an entrepreneur. He had an office on Mount Adams. He was in real estate. He was in branding. We also had a product line. So I learned a lot from him, in terms of how to operate within a business. So you have the HR aspect, in which you’re hiring people to do work on your behalf, whether it’s a small gig or a full time employee. You have a business model, like, what are you selling? Is it a service or a product? You have your clients to deal with and then vendors. So it really gave me that I don’t have a formal MBA, but just kind of an entree into what it’s like to run a business day to day. So I think by the time I was neutralized in 2007 Naturalized. Naturalized.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Say neutralized. But it’s but it could also be neutralization, I guess.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. By the time I was naturalized let me see that again. By the time I was naturalized, I had already planted roots. I feel like the city really gave me a lot of opportunities to grow. I’ve met wonderful people and just kind of felt very at home here.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
And then I hosted beer pong parties.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Really interesting, Sarah. So I want to zone in on you talking about having a job as a pet sitter. You know? And as you know, the podcast, its roots, routes, and voices. And we’re talking about the roots from where you came from, the route that you take, and the voice that you ultimately have in the community. And, the route doesn’t necessarily have to be like, I traveled this way, but it’s about that journey so you come to America. In your case, you’re already very well educated. You’ve worked in foreign service, and here you are with a job pet sitting.

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, gosh.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Let’s talk about that transition and why that is necessary to get to, let’s say, the voice you have now as a community leader.

Sarah Tsai:
Listen. That is not an odd story for immigrants.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, no. No. It’s not. And yeah. But I think people would want to understand, like, how does that happen? Because I think it gets lost a lot of times, with most Americans not understanding, like, why is that?

Sarah Tsai:
You have engineers that are driving Ubers. You have, my friend Katya, she’s a lawyer by training. She’s from Russia, and she’s baking bread. Like, you don’t always have the career opportunity here right off the bat. You have to get to know people. It’s not like, my dad’s on this board. He got me this job. Right? Or Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
I know that a former partner in a firm I worked at had his daughter start working when he sold the business, so he got his daughter a job at the business that he sold his business to. So you don’t have that. When you’re an immigrant, you move here. My mother lives here and she works at Procter, but she didn’t really help me in that way. So yeah, I tried everything that I could that was available to me at the time.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Like, you’re trying to understand the culture. You’re trying to learn the business in terms of how the country operates. And in a journey to get there, you take what different job is available. Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
And don’t forget dating. Like, I was like I was like making my boyfriend of four days, like, a full meal every night, like, because I didn’t understand the culture here is that

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Like you don’t have to coop.

Sarah Tsai:
You can’t tap that. You know, like you’re No, like you. The culture here is that you play hard to get and you know, you expect them to come chase you. But the culture I grew up in was you’re very respectful and you sort of show them that you can run a household, take care of a family. So, like, the way I put my best foot forward was not, like, let me show you how drunk I can get in a bar. I was like, here, let me make you dinner, and it was very, very weird.

Bryan Wright:
So it made a man’s stomach, apparently.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. I know. Exactly. I’ve had it, but that doesn’t exist here. Right? You cook your little tissue.

Sarah Tsai:
You get taken for granted.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
You get taken for granted.

Sarah Tsai:
Fast and you’re like, wait.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
I have a built-in cook.

Bryan Wright:
This is not a regular thing. Just Yeah. This is courtship. No.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. Yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Like, you actually escape people off when you cook.

Sarah Tsai:
So at that age group, yes. Like, when you’re in your twenties and you’re dating and you’re, like, showing how committed you are Mhmm. Right off the bat. And they’re like, sorry. I just wanted to have fun.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
My wife, when we first met her, when we were talking, I was talking up a good game about cooking. And so she pushed me and said, okay. So we were at that point of the conversation where we were going to go our separate ways. And she’s like, well, you’re talking about how great of a cook you are. Why don’t you come over to my apartment and cook me dinner tonight? Challenge accepted. So we went grocery shopping in Cayman. So food just played a central part of that. So I think it’s interesting how we were talking about the route from you talking about dating to cooking four times a night for your boyfriend and how just the role that cooking and food plays a part to show Mhmm. This is what a relationship can be like. That’s just interesting to me.

Sarah Tsai:
You know, being the 47 year old mature woman that I am now, it’s very sexy actually for a man to say I can cook. Right? That’s like

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh my gosh. Yes. Uh-huh.

Sarah Tsai:
Like a really nice kind gesture. But I think if you’re in a dating circuit and you’re in your twenties and you’re like, come over, let me cook for you as a female, it’s kinda weird.

Bryan Wright:
Right. No. Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
But that’s what I brought culturally with me without realizing I’m now in a different time and space with a bunch of Americans. Right. And, you know, it’s just a different culture.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. It’s the American experience between the girlfriend experience and the wife experience.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. So let me go get a boob job and a tan. Like, not cooking any more meals. Just kidding.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Alright. Let’s get into, so when we’re doing research about, some of the journeys that you have taken, including navigating your zigzag career path, which is really interesting. All the things that you have done, Sarah, what were the most challenging obstacles you think you have faced as an immigrant professional? So, you know, we talked about pet seating. We haven’t even talked about modeling, but I know you did that too.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
And then you also did acting because I remember seeing you at the Aranoff in some play.

Sarah Tsai:
Thank you.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yes. I remember. All over the place. Yeah. Can you talk about obstacles and the challenges or opportunities? Because I’m sure all of those might you know, you might look at it as an obstacle or you might look at it as a challenge. And maybe it’s both. Right? Two things can be correct at the same time. Can you talk more about that?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. So my career took a big leap when I switched from working with my entrepreneurial friend, Amal Adams, to working for the VP of r and d at P and G. He sort of retired and started his own consulting practice. So it was great timing. I think it was 2009, 2010, I started working for this innovation consulting firm. I sort of brought to the firm my operation experience from working at a little startup, which wasn’t called startup back then. I think it was just, like, not a real job, was how it was labeled. But I did bring the sort of organization and basic business operations to this executive that left Procter and wanted to start his own consulting practice.

Sarah Tsai:
But what he brought to my life was working with these Fortune 500 companies, that I otherwise would never have networked with or had the opportunity to work with. He was on Pfizer’s board of directors, so I sort of learned more about innovation in the health care space. I remember one of my first projects was working on a PepsiCo project where they wanted to look at morning breakfast. It was sponsored by Quaker Oats and Tropicana. So now I’m like, oh, the whole grocery aisle is basically owned by, like, 10 companies globally. Right? Like Mondelez, Clorox, all these businesses. So these CPG companies, with its unique innovation challenge, I learned so much in those seven to nine years that I worked in the innovation space. So that was in and of itself such a privilege and opportunity. The challenge is I’m a petite five feet Asian woman. Right? I walk into a conference room and they’re like, I would like a walk in.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
What school are you going to be?

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah, that too. So to overcome the impression, the stigma, like, am I going to be good with clients? That was the uphill battle. And I think with the awareness of diversity and inclusion nowadays, it’s less. Right? You don’t just assume someone is one way when you meet them. Mhmm. But back in the day, definitely, you know, very still predominantly male. Like, if you’re a white middle aged person, you just kind of automatically assume more respect. I also think Mark Zuckerberg and a lot of the tech startups helped with that because he’s showing up in a hoodie.

Sarah Tsai:
So I think that the change to, okay, what value do you bring even though you’re not dressed like a middle aged successful person Mhmm. That’s a big shift. And also with COVID, everything going remote, you know, I have yet to encounter sort of the push back I’ve had when I do presentations in person and I stand up and I’m not as tall as everybody else. Mhmm. When I’m on a Zoom call and I’m walking through software setup, you know, system design, nobody’s giving me any push back on my expertise or just, like, that off the bat impression that or that sort of vibe you get that they don’t respect you the way they should.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
But you can see the body language

Sarah Tsai:
Yes, the tone.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Everyone’s just paying attention to what you’re saying.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. Not sensing that through, video calls anymore.

Bryan Wright:
But it is I mean, you’re pointing to a really what I’m hearing that’s resonating is just the constant global presence of this constant need of pushing and challenging against male dominance and expectations of how you enter a room versus how someone else enters the room. You mentioned this kind of situation in Taiwan, but it’s happening here as well. So it’s just it’s and how you navigate walking into these spaces with confidence. And so I’m thinking about how you are walking in these new spaces with confidence, knowing these challenges and how people may perceive you and how it links up to you talking about dating, but also knowing you have kids and how that leads to you as a parent. Right? And and and I think you have a daughter. Right? And so I think what we’d like to get to after the break is more about your role as a parent and how some of these kinds of themes you’re talking about play your role as a parent. And then I’ll talk about your kids a little bit if they ‘re okay with that.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. Absolutely.

Bryan Wright:
Great. So coming up in the second half, we’ll talk to Sarah about, you know, loss in translation moments and how humor can bridge connections and get into a bit about parenting. Coming up in the second half, we’ll talk to Sarah more about entrepreneurship and life balance, finding time between dating, business, and eventual motherhood.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
You are listening to Roots, Routes, and Voices, a Cincinnati campus podcast.

Bryan Wright:
This podcast was funded in part by a grant from the Carol Ann and Ralph V. Hale Junior Foundation.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Thank you for your support in helping us to share stories that make up our beautiful region, but often go unheard.

Bryan Wright:
Welcome back to Roots, Routes, and Voices. If you’re just joining us, we’re continuing our conversation with Sarah Tsai and her experience immigrating to America and establishing roots in Cincinnati. Welcome back.

Sarah Tsai:
Thanks.

Bryan Wright:
So we’ve covered a lot, but I wanna go back to this conversation about dating. Right? I wanna I’m very interested in your global experiences dating and understanding and navigating different cultures and what courtship looks like.

Sarah Tsai:
So I think it looks different across the board now, like, today. But, way back when I had just come to Cincinnati, I was very conservative. I sort of meet people, and wouldn’t assume that they have the intention to have a serious relationship. But I think then I learned there was the girlfriend experience and the wife experience. It’s all different. I think in the sort of dating circuit at the time, it was a lot of just kind of flirting, getting to know each other, but because I came from a different country with a different mindset of if someone is showing interest in you, they know that they take this interaction seriously. And that’s not just not always the case. But I certainly understand the cultural differences because when I was doing my graduate degree in England, I actually had a classroom full of Arab men.

Sarah Tsai:
And one of them asked me, like, he was asking me out, but his words were, how much do you cost? Because he already had a wife. And I said, well, you need to ask the professor for his permission. So I like answering that.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
You already had a wife and he was asking you out?

Sarah Tsai:
It’s common. I think Arab men see I mean, I don’t wanna generalize, but I think the undertone was, you know, like I can buy whatever I want. So I think some of the affluent people that got sent overseas to study, in England at the time, at least my classmates were sort of upfront about what their intentions were, you know, which is yet different from here or in Taiwan.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
So what was your response to how much it cost?

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, I said I’m

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
A Lamborghini and No.

Sarah Tsai:
I said I said you need to ask the professor, which is also culturally appropriate. Because if you wanna ask me out, you need to ask someone in authority.

Bryan Wright:
Uh-huh. So it is aside from the question itself but the directness, is that a common just being direct upfront about wants and needs. Right? And just, you know, offline, we were talking about, you know, negotiating like, being upfront about the expectations around dating for the purpose of marriage versus dating for fun or exploring options out there. Right? So

Sarah Tsai:
I don’t know one Western woman that wouldn’t be offended by that question.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, yeah. There. Right. But I can also like, you don’t even have to be Western. Even as an African, I’m like, how much do you cost? That would absolutely offend me.

Sarah Tsai:
But I think if you are, you know, of no means from a family, that would be a legitimate question. Yeah. Back in the day.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
I don’t know. Sarah, I love how you keep referring back to the day. You think we’re talking about the sixties and fifties, but this is, like, early two thousands.

Sarah Tsai:
Listen. If you talk to my kids, like, I think me and my friend showed my kids, like, hey, look at this cute guy. You know? We showed a LinkedIn profile of a guy my friend likes. My daughter’s like, well, I guess if I were your age, and selections are so limited. And, you know, so

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
I like your age.

Sarah Tsai:
I mean and so we were like, so what are your thoughts on dating apps? I’m asking a Gen Alpha here. And she’s like, my school is a big dating app. What are you talking about?

Bryan Wright:
So you said LinkedIn. Was LinkedIn used just for some, you know, background information? I mean, I’ve never heard of LinkedIn as a dating tool. No.

Sarah Tsai:
No. No. We were showing a photo of someone my friend was interested in, and he had, like, a LinkedIn picture. He looks kinda old. And we think he’s very attractive, but she’s like, well, I guess if I were you guys his age

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
I mean, my son was like, what I was walking him home from school one day, and he said, mom, are you older than Google?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Are you?

Sarah Tsai:
And then, like, he couldn’t believe it. Like, this is like he all of a sudden realized what a dinosaur his mother was.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Like, when I was coming up, we used to say, yeah. That was the search engine, not Google. So, yeah.

Bryan Wright:
Yeah. My kids, like, out yeah. There was a time before the internet. We were older than the internet.

Sarah Tsai:
Right. Have you seen that, meme where you give the kids rotary phones and they’re like, don’t know what to do with it? 

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
What is this? Uh-huh. Yes. That’s a good one. That’s a good one.

Sarah Tsai:
Or a big TV with, like, a really thick back. I don’t understand what it’s

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
See, I never understood those TVs. Like, why was that technology at the time? Those were humongous. Remember the Sonys?

Bryan Wright:
Oh, yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. The tube. Those were humongous, those TVs.

Bryan Wright:
So do you. But I’m sorry.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Go ahead.

Bryan Wright:
Do your kids see you because you’ve talked about dating and then some of the parties and such. Do they see you as do they see that side of you or do they like, how do they see you?

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, no. 100% soccer mom. Like, I drive them places.

Bryan Wright:
So like soccer mom with the white claw and the koozie or, like, just like driving back and forth and

Sarah Tsai:
See, that’s funny because I work out of the blue. So I work for myself, and I remember one of my daughter’s friends said to her, your mom doesn’t even work, you know? So it looks as if I’m at all the kids’ events, but I actually do have a job, you know?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Right. I want to go back to dating when you’re in The UK and then coming over here. Because earlier, we had been talking about the different expectations when it comes to dating. You know? Like, so how I grew up, say, in Africa and African men, people don’t just date to date. Dating is very intentional. When you ask someone out as aa as a guy, you’ve already done your research on this woman. Now I know now saying do your research on someone’s kinda creepy. Right? Because that assumes you’re stalking them a little bit. But you’ve already done your research as far as who their friends are, who their family is, where they are coming from. So when you start asking someone out, you’re asking with the intention to marry, right, and not just dating around. Do you wanna talk more about that expectation and your experiences dating around Cincinnati?

Sarah Tsai:
Gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, in my younger days, I’ve done my fair share of partying. I sort of ran around in a very social circuit, so I’ve met all kinds of people and eventually, I did settle down and have kids. My kid’s father is Filipino by ethnicity and grew up in New York City, so we had very similar values in terms of, you know, wanting a serious committed relationship. So even though I sort of tried with, you know, different people over the course of the years I was here, it kind of didn’t quite work out.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, it happens. And then, so you dated Filipino, Arab guys, American guys?

Sarah Tsai:
I actually didn’t date the Arab guy. 

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
We need to clarify that. Any Bryans?

Bryan Wright:
There’s only one Bryon. No. That’s true.

Sarah Tsai:
I would say, like, you know, we’re here to break the culture stigma. Right? So I am, like, very happily dating someone right now that I think have all the same values and qualities, and he’s Caucasian. So Mhmm. You know, it’s it’s one thing to educate everyone about all the cultural differences

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
Of immigrants, but it’s also important to look at the people that are here in Cincinnati. There’s diversity too within even the same, gender or,

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Ethnicities.

Sarah Tsai:
Ethnicities. Yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you look at values.

Bryan Wright:
Mhmm.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Right? And those tend to be cross-cultural.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. And lifestyle expectations.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yes. Yes. And all of that. So alright, Sarah. Let’s get back to business. Okay. My favorite topic. Your favorite topic? Not the dating one.

Sarah Tsai:
No. Probably parenting these days.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Oh, yeah. Parenting.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. Like, business is great. You know, I’ve built a very solid foundation. So parenting is more tricky these days.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
I know for us all.

Bryan Wright:
Do you mind if I have the question about that, about parenting? Right? So we talked about going back to the beginning of the conversation around expectations and your own. You talked about foreign service and, you know, many degrees in international relations and such. And there was that in light of expectations that your parents had for you. Do you have similar kinds of expectations of your children that, you know, like doctor, engineer, or or is it more open or like, after you?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
That is such a great question.

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, my kids make fun of me so much. My son’s like, I’m just gonna be a dishwasher. Sorry to disappoint you. Like, he’s putting it up front, so he’s getting no pressure.

Bryan Wright:
It’s effective. When I met my wife, I was bussing tables and cleaning, washing dishes. So it’s an effective strategy to meet your life partner. So

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. Okay. So, one thing I probably didn’t mention in the first half of the podcast was when my family so my father and mother lived in The US when I was a little girl. There was domestic violence in my home. My father was somewhat abusive to my mom physically and emotionally. And so I didn’t, that period of my life was very dark for me, and so somehow I have this aversion to teaching my kids Mandarin, which they resent. Oh. Because it reminds me too much of the disturbing home life that I had.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. So this very recent summer, I took them back to Taiwan and enrolled them in language school hoping that they would learn their mother tongue. But I mean, I think I had to choose between, like, focusing on their emotional well-being and my emotional well-being in terms of raising them. And it’s actually really fun to raise them in a totally different culture setting than how I grew up. But they do wish that I had spoken Mandarin to them and brought them up bilingual somehow. Mhmm.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
But I’m sure they understand why.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. I don’t. I don’t know how much they understand it, but they’re doing pretty good in school. So no one’s, you know, judging them for not speaking too much.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
So do you have any expectations of them or what? You’re not talking about your kids telling you that, I’m going to be a dishwasher. One of my sons just told me the other day, it’s like, oh, mom. Because I am one parent, again, based on upbringing, where I’m always like, what are you going to be doing? You know, like, I don’t want to impose my expectations, but I do have expectations. Right? And I try to just be like, I’ll meet you where you are because that’s what we’re supposed to do as parents, accept where your kids are going and nurture them in that area and not so much what you want them to be. So one of them the other day told me, like, mom, I figured out what school I’m going to, which college I’m going to, you know? And I’m like, oh, great. You know, tell me. And it’s like, I’m going to OFU. Have you heard about that university?

Bryan Wright:
I don’t know if I wanna ask or say, no. I’m not. Let’s go. What is it?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
It’s like, oh, yeah. I’m going to only France University. So there you go about Aw. Our expectations and what the kids these days think is cool. So, anyway

Bryan Wright:
Do you so it’s it seems like there’s entrepreneurship just built into I think about the dream crasher you mentioned earlier and how direct they were. And but you also mentioned, like, thank you for being so direct and honest because it led you to this other kind of these other routes that led to entrepreneurship. And so in thinking about, you know, your journey of life and career exploration, talking about this as a mother and parent. I just wanna kinda go back to entrepreneurship and, you know, what kind of message do you share with other professionals or mentors mentees, I would say, and what kind of advice do you have, you know, from your experience as an entrepreneur?

Sarah Tsai:
I love it. Well, first of all, thank you Clara for your story because that preps me for what is to come. I’m sure I will hear something similar. I wanna answer the first question about parenting and expectations. So because I work in not just entrepreneurship, but upstream product innovation, what that means is I get to see the forefront of value creation of how to scale a, you know, million billion dollar company. I would say to my kids, just, like, really find something that you’re good at. You know, like, figure out what your strengths are and have emotional intelligence and social intelligence. That’s so important because the job that they’re gonna grow into, you know, my kids are 10 and 12, when they enter the job market, none of the things I could teach them now will prepare them.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.

Sarah Tsai:
You know, like, the jobs that they’re going to have don’t exist right now, so I just want to make sure that they’re well rounded humans with empathy and that they know what their gift is to the world and why they’re even here. And then to my fellow entrepreneurs and people who are young professionals today, I would say that there’s a big difference between innovation and invention. And what I mean by that is a lot of people think they want the lifestyle of an entrepreneur because you have freedom, you know, you think that people are gonna rally behind your idea. Well, that’s not exactly how it works. You have to figure out where you generate value, and what does that value look like. It might be providing connections. It might be, you know, really good customer service. It might be your marketing ideas and genius. And not everybody’s suited for entrepreneurship.

Sarah Tsai:
Some people do need that structure to rally around them, and I often use the example of you might be a great chef, but don’t open a restaurant if you don’t want to, you know, wait tables or hire people to wait tables or be at the front desk or be a hostess or deal with investors. Like, you just have to really know what that strength is. You don’t always, another sort of I would say a blind spot for a lot of entrepreneurs too is that we deem people who have a unique and special idea as an entrepreneur and someone who can raise money or set up their own business with their titles. It’s not like that at all. Sometimes you’re just a freelancer, a solo member LLC. You know, you don’t have to go for the

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
The venture capital dollars.

Sarah Tsai:
The venture capital dollars, the structure, you know, figure out what your revenue goals are and see if the value that you create can deliver enough of that to enough clients so that you could support yourself and be very gainful, like, be gainfully employed. You don’t have to invent something or create a new service or something completely unique in the market. You could be, you know, reselling some, pickleball rackets on Amazon. You know, like, that’s an entrepreneur, and that could be a solopreneur venture. So I really like the flexibility and agility around how we think about entrepreneurship these days. Mhmm. And I think that that’s sort of missing from our ecosystem because we sort of celebrate tech startups. We celebrate, hey, you sell a contract into a big co or you know, but there’s reasons for that. You’re providing value. So going back to the crux of things, how are you creating value, and how are you structuring your work around that value that you create?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That is so well said, Sarah. I think, as a solopreneur, you know, that is I can see how people easily go towards that because that’s a question you will get you you’re always getting. Like, you know, so where are you getting money from? Where are you getting loans from? Like, people constantly want to know that, you know, where are you getting your capital from? And they’re constantly being sold loans. Like, oh, if you’re going to grow, you need to get this amount of money. But I know from a personal point of view, like, I’ve heard pushback because I’m like, I know what my bottom line is in terms of how much money I need to survive and what I can take on and can’t take on and what value that you’re bringing.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
But, yeah, it’s just there is a lot of push to define you, right, as maybe a solopreneur, entrepreneur, or whatever, to go towards a certain way. And I always feel like that’s towards getting loans and making money with most people. So if you’re not strong in figuring that out, yeah, it’s a gray area.

Sarah Tsai:
Another way to look at success and life is to dream up the life that you want and backtrack into it. You know, like, not everybody needs the big fancy house. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just struggling to pay the mortgage. People can be very happy in a town home

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
And doing well enough that they travel Mhmm. Instead of sort of having that mortgage linger at the back of their heads. And I think that’s kind of counter to a lot of the cultural trends, but Mhmm. That’s how I maintain Mhmm. Some kind of sanity and balance in my life.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
That’s wonderful. So what do you think makes Cincinnati’s business community different from other cities that you’ve experienced nationally and globally?

Sarah Tsai:
Resources are very accessible. I think if you just do a little bit of research, there’s a lot of entities out there that help business.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Uh-huh. I agree.

Sarah Tsai:
I’ve worked with WebBank, the women’s owned business program. I’ve worked with OMSDC, Ohio minority diversity council in Columbus, with a chamber. There are a lot of resources available out there for startups and entrepreneurs. We have such a robust, startup ecosystem here. Mhmm. So it’s really lovely.

Bryan Wright:
I really like that you touched on entrepreneurship is not always I I like what your distinction between innovation and invention. And your other point about sometimes it’s neither right, it’s acquisition. And there’s there’s been a push among some organizations to for entrepreneurship through acquisition. And, you know, so not inventing anything new, but entering into a new market or sector by purchasing an or a business.

Sarah Tsai:
Mhmm.

Bryan Wright:
And then creating that wealth for your own family by that entrepreneurship through acquisition approach. So I’m glad that you mentioned that. I have a question about you talking about considering value. When you talk about value, do you mean only monetarily or do you mean value of a social impact? Could you talk more about what you mean by thinking about value and what that means for, in the calculations of entrepreneurship of, you know, either through acquisition or a new product or just in value in general. Can you talk more about that? What do you mean?

Sarah Tsai:
Consultants can go up to, like, $500 an hour bill rate. Right? Lawyers, accountants. Right? What value are they bringing? They’re saving the bottom line for someone. Mhmm. They have expertise that you can’t get elsewhere. So that’s what I mean by value. Like, what’s your expertise? I have a lot of friends who are sort of struggling in the video production space right now because there are 60 video production companies out there, one in each town in just the city of Cincinnati, whilst a lot of kids are shooting things on their phone and editing it. Right? So you have by value, I mean market value.

Sarah Tsai:
Like, how is your work valued? Like, in the past, you can say I’m a writer. Well, now there’s ChatGPT. So content writing has taken a very different dynamic. So you might be able to charge $90 an hour as a content writer. I don’t think you can bill that anymore right now. So as the industries are changing, as the needs of markets are changing, you have to see the type of work that you do and what that is getting paid at different types of bill rates. So I’m not promoting, like, everybody go get your law degree and become an accountant. I’m just saying, like, specialty.

Sarah Tsai:
Right? So if you’re editing video and you can do branding, or if you are, you know, consulting on marketing strategy, but you’re like, hey. This is your business and this is your industry. I would give you this advice on top of just doing your marketing. So the added value and the value itself of the labor and the work, you have to be constantly looking out for what is it that you bring that people need or depending on your customer, if it’s a b to b business or b to c, you know, or direct to direct to consumer, you just have to figure out what that layer value is.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
That’s like added value. Like, what would you say added value? What added value are you bringing to your customer, your client that differentiates you?

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. So the base value is what you could charge for the product or service, and then the added value is why they choose you over competition. Right? If everybody’s billing at that same bill rate, why would they pick you over others?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. I get that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I totally agree. I wanna get back to something that you mentioned, or maybe Bryan mentioned about, entrepreneurship through acquisition. This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, again, in coming to different conversations with people, and then I’m talking about, so how much do you think your companies value? Like, when do you sell it? I feel like now a lot of people start companies with, like, a five or ten year plan to sell? Like, that’s I’ve I’ve come across a lot of entrepreneurs that seem to be, oh, yeah. If you have not made x amount or grown to x amount by year five, you just have to give it up because nobody’s going to buy. And I’m like, is selling the ultimate? What do you think is going on there?

Sarah Tsai:
So I’m not in the entrepreneur space because I, in a sense , have a business that I’m selling, right? Like, I’m a solopreneur and I own an agency and I do, you know, innovation consulting. But in the space of when you create a product and you get a product to market and you want to monetize your investments, you gotta get rid of it quickly because somebody else has that same idea. Mhmm. You know, like, that’s my interpretation of when people are looking at a five year exit or a ten year exit plan. Because if you’re not reaching those revenue goals and you’re not reaching critical mass, you’re too late. Like, you’re getting outbid by, you know, by the competition out performed. I mean, there’s you know, for every Airbnb, there’s 50 others that are doing the same version of that. So how to become market dominant? And that’s why in the startup ecosystem, there’s this rush to hit revenue goals and sell and scale.

Sarah Tsai:
Mhmm. Okay. So yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. So it’s about if you have a product, then that becomes the goal versus if you’re just, if you have a business. So that’s okay. That makes sense. That’s a good distinction. So I think there is a distinction.

Sarah Tsai:
I think people often think that the area that I work in that I’m very proud of these days is data architecture. So your customer data, your company data, your sales pipeline, and your service

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
And your overall revenue operations. This did not exist five, ten years ago. I’m sure it was on someone’s desktop in Excel. Yeah. But if I were to tell a young professional or a kid, like, what if you wanna go into business, you’ve gotta look at all these moving parts and learn revenue operations.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tsai:
Like, even if you did a mock up company, that’s not real, like, learn about it Mhmm. Yesterday in terms of how to set up your customer, company, and data. You have to understand the full pipeline. Sales pipeline. Learn about services because that’ll set you up for a holistic view of any business Mhmm. And generate profit from what you do. And that data architecture, like, if you’re gonna Bryan talks about mergers and acquisitions and buying and selling. So first thing you have to look at, you have to look at the balance sheet and the value and the EBITDA of the business, and then you can actually decide if you wanna buy it or not. You know? And is their data clean and streamlined, or is it just all numbers on a sheet?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. What’s your take on Cincinnati’s capacity for innovation and forward thinking?

Sarah Tsai:
I don’t know. I feel like I’m such a stay at home mom these days. I mean, not like a stay at home mom, but I’m, like, such a suburban mom these days that I’m not, you know I don’t have my ear on the ground with, like, city council and new things that are being pushed out policy wise. Mhmm. But I see FC Stadium being built. I see, you know, Factory

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Priority, Sarah.

Sarah Tsai:
Factory fifty two and lots of, you know, bars and restaurants opening up and

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Uh-huh.

Sarah Tsai:
So a lot of up and coming neighborhoods.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Where is the money that is patronizing all these restaurants and entertainment? Where’s the money coming from? What do you think, Bryan? Does Compass do research on where the money comes from? Is Cincinnati innovative enough?

Bryan Wright:
Sure. But I think there’s, I mean, there’s growth. Right? Now whether it’s innovative or not, you know, you talked about, like, Factory 52. It’s a new neighborhood development in Norwood that has a vibrant food hall. And so where food based entrepreneurs have a space to grow their brand and their business. You know, there’s more housing there. There’s a lack of affordable housing in the region. So it’s fixing that need.

Bryan Wright:
I think about your point about innovation versus invention and then just what kind of illustrated multiple steps or entryways for an entrepreneur. And just in some of those immediate examples, we’ve looked at real estate, food based entrepreneurs, you know, and housing and some others. And so and even consulting around this. So, it feels like the question around, is it innovative or not, does it get to where we wanna like, the answer we want or what we see in the region of growth. Right? Mhmm. And vibrant neighborhoods and such. And so it feels like the examples you talked about are examples of vibrant neighborhoods.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. Preservation is also another aspect of Factory 52 from what I know as a playing deck, a card manufacturing company. So I like what they were able to preserve of the legacy and heritage there. Yeah.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
What is Factory fifty two?

Bryan Wright:
So it was a card game. I forget a card, like a card playing card, like, I’m just trying to yeah. Play cards. And so did the factory. And, it was a factory that manufactured these cards. Mhmm. And so some of the buildings were preserved, and they’ve honored the history not only with a plaque, but some of the the aesthetic around the development, is a kind of a nod to this history. Mhmm. And so, they’ve been able to bring back housing through, condos and apartments, and then also have

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Which neighborhood?

Bryan Wright:
Norwood.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Norwood. Okay. Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
And so and so faultless, I don’t know. Norwood. And there’s a civic space there’s a civic space so there’s an open park and so they’ll have events and stuff in the summer. So it’s a way to build community through, you know, people coming into parks, into the park and getting their food and and saying so. It is a way to bring people together to build community, but it’s also driven by entrepreneurs who are not food based, but in the housing and real estate industries as well as some others. So, yes, the United States Playing Card Company. Thank you. So, that was the company for where Factory fifty two is.

Bryan Wright:
So Okay. But yeah. So we see this across multiple neighborhoods. Right? And so you mentioned Marymount where you are and, you know, Norwood is developing. Do you have and you’ve been in Cincinnati for some time now. Do you have favorite neighborhoods or townships or other parts of the area that you like when you’re out carrying your kids to soccer matches and ice skating and such and such?

Sarah Tsai:
No. No. No. II kind of hop around, like the newer coffee shops or plant stores or, you know, I take art classes sometimes, so I kind of go all over really. Not very often to Forest Park, but.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Forest Park? Oh, come here where we are in Forest Park. Yeah. Yeah. This seems kinda out, away from a lot of the urban centers in Cincinnati. Would this be considered Greater Cincinnati? Sure. Forest Park? Yep. Yeah.

Bryan Wright:
So we only have a few more minutes left and thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. So we have, we tend to do kind of, like, quick questions or get into the region, just you’re talking we touched on it just briefly about different neighborhoods and townships. But, you know, Cincinnati so we wanna ask you a few kinds of, like, rapid fire questions around. So one of them is, you know, Cincinnati does have some unique food traditions from its chili to get a, which is a very uniquely Cincinnati thing. Grater’s ice cream, you know, all founded by immigrants. Right? So it has a rich immigrant tradition. Do you have a Cincinnati food that you find surprising or surprising that it exists or that you like or or you just stay away from these?

Sarah Tsai:
Oh, I love the mom and pop grocery stores. Like, there’s an Indian grocery store in Clifton where I get all the spices. There is actually a Russian grocery store up by King’s Auto Mall, that I accidentally stumbled into when I was getting my car serviced. There’s a Chinese grocery store that I shop at. So even though I know this is not a Cincinnati tradition, I will say my children will need to have Skyline at least once a week. And they love all of the native foods that are here in Cincinnati. Yeah. We’re frequent graders in all the places.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
And then if you had to create a perfect Cincinnati Day itinerary for a friend visiting from Taiwan, what would you include?

Sarah Tsai:
I would first look at the dates that they’re coming and see if there’s a performance at the Aronoff, whether it’s the symphony or the ballet.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Uh-huh.

Sarah Tsai:
Yes. That’s fair enough. Then depending on their palate, like, I know Chinese people, they tend to also want Chinese food here.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
So we would probably cook at home and do, like, potluck or, hot pot. And then, I love Cafe Mochco in Walnut Hills. Uh-huh. The Art museum is wonderful and Eden Park.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
I think Mariemont has a whole vibe, so I take them around my neighborhood. Mhmm. And just depending on how jet lagged they are, like, put it together as an itinerary. I know when my dad visited, he was, like, in the middle of the night trying to find, you know, like, Chinese food or I was like, I don’t I don’t know. I’ll just have to cook, you know.

Bryan Wright:
I feel like there’s been a real not only in food in general, there’s been a lot of activity with growing restaurant scenes and just the diversity of chefs and menus that we see at restaurants. Mhmm. But I feel like hot pot has just blown up in the last five or six years in the region of Hot pot. Hot pot. Like what’s there talking about?

Sarah Tsai:
Hot pot.

Bryan Wright:
Chinese hot pot, shabu shabu and then like even

Sarah Tsai:
Bubble tea.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. Bubble tea. That’s definitely a Taiwanese import.

Sarah Tsai:
Is that right?

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yes. Yeah. Because, I remember, talking about back in the day, when I used to work at the museum center and did all the culture fest, the Taiwanese association would always bring bubble tea, but you could never find it anyway. So I only got to drink it during the culture fest once a year when they would bring it over. And now

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. That’s perfect.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
It’s everywhere. That’s very cool.

Sarah Tsai:
I love that.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah.

Sarah Tsai:
Yeah. Reminds me of home.

Bryan Wright:
And I think that’s one of the things we hear so often is that people want to feel a sense of connection, a sense of connection, belonging, and a sense of home. Mhmm. So having bubble tea, having hot pot, people want things that are familiar, want new experiences too, like a Skyline Chili, but also wanna have something more familiar. Right? And I think that’s and where it’s great about society is that both become familiar and known. And I think that’s a really wonderful thing. So

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Yeah. So to wrap up, Sarah, what would you say, is the voice that has emerged from your journey? All the different stories that we’ve talked about, where you are now, middle aged? Is that accurate? What’s a voice that you would say you have been met as a way of closing for, for us listeners?

Sarah Tsai:
Is it like a I think I’m definitely a fusion of, the different cultures and the different places and the people that I’ve loved, and the life experiences. But I’m also someone who is very interested in growing as a person and learning, not just like teaching my kids things, but like learning from them or developing new interests and hobbies. And the older I get, the more I want to just live in the moment and appreciate everybody around me and the the the time, you know, because we live in such turbulent times and just, like, really build community and settle into, you know, any ounce of peace I can get out of this life that I have.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Do you feel American?

Sarah Tsai:
Gosh. That’s such a hard question. Because of the politics right now, I am really, you know, disturbed by it. But I think before, I would say yes. Mhmm. You know? Before we’ve become such a controversial place.

Bryan Wright:
Just wanna thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We’ve covered so much, and I feel like there’s so much more to get to. And so I hope that, you know, you’ll come back and visit us. And I really appreciate your curiosity, your compassion, and your confidence, but you walk and negotiate different spaces and then your humor that is woven through and through. Through. So I just wanna thank you for joining Claire and I today, and it’s been a really wonderful conversation.

Sarah Tsai:
Thank you for having me.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Thank you so much, Sarah.

Bryan Wright:
To everyone at home, we appreciate you for joining us today. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to Roots, Routes, and Voices That Shape America wherever you stream your podcast. Visit www.cincinnaticompass.0rg to sign up for our newsletter and stay connected about upcoming community events.

Clara Matonhodze Strode:
Our producers are Asim Mishu and Jane Muindi. Sound engineering and mixing provided by Heartcast Media, AllSat engineers, Peter and Audrey, and eleven twenty seven Media. A very special thank you to the Forest Park branch of Cincinnati Hamilton County Public Library for hosting, and to the Carol Anne and Ralph V. Hale Junior Foundation for sponsoring our podcast. I’m your host, Clara Martinose. Thanks for listening.